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Original author: KaptainPickles (Flarum #722)
@aewuu That’s what I’m saying though. It’s not steep, it’s non-existant.
So again I ask you, why shouldn’t AP generation be NATURAL for Cardis?
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Original author: aewuu (Flarum #575)
Support cardi already AP generate with their skills, and no problem at that.
You want to talk about poor AP generation, take a look at for example SVS AM. Their primary skill don’t even generate AP lol.
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Original author: KaptainPickles (Flarum #722)
@aewuu
I do want to talk about poor AP generation. This thread is quite literally about buffing AP generation for support Cardinals. If you want to put out another thread about SVS generating AP, then please do so. But I am not going to be discussing that here.
Anyways, please refer to any of my previous responses as to why support Cardinals do not generate enough AP. And you are not answering my question. Am I to take this as you think its acceptable to have to sit there out of combat and spam skills on yourself to generate AP? Can you explain how that is expected to be natural game play?
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Original author: aewuu (Flarum #575)
I’ve already communicated the facts, and experiences on the matter. Also I never once said nor recommend to stay out of combat.
All the cardis I’ve ever played with, and myself included, do generate enough AP.
I do suggest to use turbo. It should help.
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Original author: KaptainPickles (Flarum #722)
@aewuu
That cannot possibly be true. I see Cardis do this all the time. In ToT, in D1/D2, all over the place. Its not uncommon to see a Cardi hanging back to spam skills on themselves to generate AP. The fact that this thread even exists goes to show that its not a trivial task to generate AP as a support Cardinal.
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Original author: danieltran88 (Flarum #1512)
Most of Cardinal stat buff skills have a 180+ seconds duration, and we only have 12 person in party.
It’s seem to like a dumb if you just spam buff skills to regen AP while we must do vary actions such as lex spam, resu, or mobs luring, etc….
So I still suggest we must make Dilectio Heal AP gain scale with healed target. +1 addititon AP per Addition target, up to 2 AP (Max AP gain = 3). Since gain 5 AP per cast is strong. The solo DPS Cardinal can’t take advantage, it’s just for teamplay support Cardinal.
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Original author: aewuu (Flarum #575)
You can still take advantage. Dilectio is the first skill on the left side skill tree of a cardinal. If a monster isn’t nearby as a DPS cardi, spam dilectio on a group and generate 3x faster with your proposal. Also your character doesn’t become useless just because you don’t have AP.
You’re supposed to spam skills to generate resources to access the big skills.
With turbo accessibility, there is no issues to spam at higher speeds consistently.
Compent has a cooldown of 60 seconds, if you’re generating 600 AP per minute, you have over 100% uptime for a skill that gives 50 flat p.atk, s.matk, a full hp and sp heal on 9 cell range skill. That’s too good.
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Original author: telu (Flarum #782)
@aewuu Ah yes the poor SVS AM that can’t generate AP to use its very important AP consuming skill which is…. Oh yeah SVS AM doesn’t have one so that isn’t a good comparison.
I think you don’t understand the subject of this discussion : you’re trying very hard to convince people that it’s possible to build AP on support Cardi, and that you just have to spam the skills that have AP generation but nobody here is saying that it’s impossible, we’re saying that doing so takes time away from actually being useful to your team.
Everyone that has tried to play support even a little knows that they can spam dilectio or framen or the trait boosting skills but dilectio is rarely useful compared to mediale/reparatio, framen does nothing since you have no damage and the trait boosting skills have a 4 minutes duration so applying them does nothing 99% of the time.
None of that helps your team, you aren’t doing your actual job unlike any dps class that naturally builds AP while dealing damage (yes, even AM can do it).
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Original author: aewuu (Flarum #575)
Buff your team of 12 with benedictum and religio, thats 24, buff them again before the duration expires, thats 48.
Use dilectio, and you’ve generated enough for a competentia.
A direct comparison to dps and support will never be a 1:1 because their function and role are vastly different. As mentioned before, most dps class needs an actual mob to use their skills to generate AP. Support just requires yourself, or another party member to be alive. Which you’ll always have nearby.
The way you describe your parties sounds like everyone is either always dead, are on perma disability, or X.
You literally have a class that can target anything to regenerate AP, and more or less immortal that you dont die and lose all that AP.
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Original author: jinbou (Flarum #618)
@telu
Ah yes the poor SVS AM that can’t generate AP to use its very important AP consuming skill which is…. Oh yeah SVS AM doesn’t have one so that isn’t a good comparison.
Want a better example? Try TL Meister, and you’ll realize how good y’all have it 
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Original author: KaptainPickles (Flarum #722)
Can we stay on topic? Miester/SVS AM are not relevant to this conversation. If we want to talk about them, open a separate thread.
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@aewuu You can still take advantage. Dilectio is the first skill on the left side skill tree of a cardinal. If a monster isn’t nearby as a DPS cardi, spam dilectio on a group and generate 3x faster with your proposal. Also your character doesn’t become useless just because you don’t have AP.
Because of course, there’s always just a nearby group hanging around. And..
https://forum.muhro.eu/assets/files/2026-01-11/1768132372-380385-image.png
@aewuu You’re supposed to spam skills to generate resources to access the big skills.
Yes, I agree. Naturally though**.**
@aewuu With turbo accessibility, there is no issues to spam at higher speeds consistently.
Turbo accessibility is Irrelevant. Just because we have turbo doesn’t mean Cardis should have to spam extra. Natural AP generation is key to this whole argument. Yes, AP can be generated just using skills on turbo, but it is not natural.
@aewuu Compent has a cooldown of 60 seconds, if you’re generating 600 AP per minute, you have over 100% uptime for a skill that gives 50 flat p.atk, s.matk, a full hp and sp heal on 9 cell range skill. That’s too good.
In my opinion, you haven’t given us a real solution to how this AP is being naturally generated. How are we supposed to -naturally- generate 600AP per minute? The solutions you’ve given us aren’t really solutions. Spamming skills using turbo on other parties is not a solution. Spamming skills on yourself outside of combat is not a solution. Spamming skills on your party when they don’t need them (Healing already full health party members, buffing multiple times, etc) is not a real solution .
To me the solution is proper AP distribution amongst skills which are ACTUALLY used. Or at least a buff in the current AP generating skills like Daniel is suggesting.
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I think what @telu said is correct:
@telu I think you don’t understand the subject of this discussion : you’re trying very hard to convince people that it’s possible to build AP on support Cardi, and that you just have to spam the skills that have AP generation but nobody here is saying that it’s impossible, we’re saying that doing so takes time away from actually being useful to your team.
All of the things you’ve said, @“aewuu”#575, are possible. Yes, I agree they are possible. HOWEVER, they drastically impact your effectiveness as a support Cardi. For example:
@aewuu Buff your team of 12 with benedictum and religio, thats 24, buff them again before the duration expires, thats 48.
Use dilectio, and you’ve generated enough for a competentia.
One, why do I as a support priest need Benedictum/Religio? So, 11. Not 12 really. Two, Casting Religio/Benedictum is only 2 AP per char total, Competentia costs 160. So rebuffing once before the duration expires is not nearly enough to recast Competentia at a whopping 48 AP of the 160 needed. This means you still need to spam Dilectio an additional 112 times. In MuhRO, that’s ~34s of casting Dilectio heal with max speed:
https://forum.muhro.eu/assets/files/2026-01-11/1768130416-137126-image.png
Over 30s of using a skill that really doesn’t get much real in combat use. Spamming it even. 112 times. Every 5 minutes.. That’s a lot of unnecessary skill spammage. Time that could have been spent using other buffs like Acies/Telum/Vita. What about your party? You also are support for your party, not just a buffer. You gotta Res/Reparatio and be ready for it. There are so many other situational things as support Cardi you need to be aware of and keeping track of, unnaturally generating AP should not be a thing that needs to be worried about.
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Original author: aewuu (Flarum #575)
Sounds like you just want AP generated through 2nd and 3rd jobs kills, or passively like SP as a cardinal.
Tip: Buff yourself with benedictum/Religio because it will tell you exactly when the buff will run out for the party. You can proactively re-apply it before it runs out. Why do I need to spell this out? This is literally basic. Which tells me you have a long ways to go.
You have 34 seconds to generate AP during 300 seconds. It’s not even expected of you to spam it straight for 34 seconds. You can do 7 seconds per minute and still generate enough.
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Original author: danieltran88 (Flarum #1512)
he just definites us as a Compe buff slave, and no more actions
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Original author: jinbou (Flarum #618)
@KaptainPickles Can we stay on topic? Miester/SVS AM are not relevant to this conversation. If we want to talk about them, open a separate thread.
I mean, I’d say mentioning how there are other classes who are as AP-starved as cardi, meaning there’ll be other classes asking for their own AP buffs if this is implemented, is relevant enough to the topic. The worry for that chain reaction/slippery slope was the main reasoning for most of the rejections to similar custom-change-to-battle-skill suggestions in the past after all, it’s no use ignoring the elephant in the room.
AA AC is another build that can’t naturally regenerate enough AP for their buff for example. Since the “natural recovery” was one of the main talking points, I’d say there’s benefit in bringing these up to see if cardi’s situation is an outlier or not.
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: KaptainPickles (Flarum #722)
@aewuu Sounds like you just want AP generated through 2nd and 3rd jobs kills, or passively like SP as a cardinal.
No. I have no idea where you got this from. I don’t believe at any point I have said this or I have even mentioned 2nd or 3rd job skills..
@aewuu Tip: Buff yourself with benedictum/Religio because it will tell you exactly when the buff will run out for the party. You can proactively re-apply it before it runs out. Why do I need to spell this out? This is literally basic. Which tells me you have a long ways to go.
Okay! Lets get this straight, you’ve fabricated an argument for me and now you’re trying to insult me? This was unwarranted and I would appreciate it if you would stay civil and respectful.
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The above aside - We all agree that we can spam skills whenever to generate AP. The problem is that its not natural for a support Cardi when we are supposed to be.. supporting. 34s spamming skills unnecessarily is 34s spent away from where we should be. And it should be noted that that’s 34s of uninterrupted casting with gear/stats to allow for it and only relevant to that particular example.
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@jinbou
Respectfully, I disagree. If we start bringing in discussions of other classes and if they are or are not AP starved, then this conversation loses its scope and becomes much too broad. In my opinion it needs to be recognized on a case by case base and applied as such. If you start saying, “Well classes x,y,z have issues generating AP, but a,b,c are fine” then the scope is much larger and the amount of work and effort is that much larger as well.
I’m not saying ignore the elephant in the room at all. I’m saying it doesn’t belong in this conversation. It deserves its own conversation where attention and detail can be given to it. Not a general conversation or to be lumped in with a conversation about a “similar topic”.
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Original author: aewuu (Flarum #575)
I’m showing the same amount of respect that is demonstrated in this thread. I’ve been stating facts, and numerous experiences from multiple people that main cardi. In which I will reiterate, has never had problems with supporting, and generating enough AP.
You want to utilize a skill that cost AP, then use AP generating skills. And again… You don’t need to spend 34s straight. There is a reason why there is a long duration for an ultimate skill.
Most of support cardi gameplay still revolves around 1st, 2nd, and 3rd job skills.
Skill modification and “buffing” a class that is already well received in most parties are not something that should be done, mainly because you “can”
Want to know why DPS classes generate AP much faster? That’s because that’s what they are suppose to do. They also need a mob to generate most AP skills. They can also die from the lack of defensive option and lose all that AP. Support roles are not meant to mirror DPS flow. DPS needs mob to generate AP, support can generate AP anytime and anywhere.
As a cardinal though? You shouldn’t be dying. Which gives you a higher chance to retain and build up AP for your ultimate skill. Take a look at IG too. That’s literally how the game is built.
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Original author: Canis (Flarum #428)
Personally, as an FS Cardi, Dilectio Heal (on turbo) is probably one of my most used skills in most gameplays. It is a fantastic AP-generating AOE healer. I don’t have Reparatio hotkey’d as the 10s CD makes it too much of a scuff to use.
I don’t really find it a struggle to regen my AP before Compe ends. Now this is in regards to field farming (i.e D1, D2). Even then, there is a high chance I can go redeem and click the healer before Compe runs out as well.
Regarding instances, realistically, I will recover AP at the healer after every instance, and the only time it would be an issue is TOT or CT. That being said, I personally haven’t seen it be an issue for me in those instances.
Just sharing my personal experience.
I don’t really think it is necessary to change things. However, I do believe that if Cardinal’s AP regen gets buffed, it does need to be limited to only Argutus Telum/Vita and Presens Acies.
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Original author: KaptainPickles (Flarum #722)
@aewuu Not once have I insulted you. Same amount of respect? Get out.
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Original author: fuqueiji (Flarum #998)
Still think that the “do we buff other classes too?” needs to be answered first and it is actually relevant. Acting first and questioning later usually is not the sensible thing to do.
Don’t really agree to the change for some reasons:
- for field farming (mainly D1/D2) just go to healer.
- for instances like (ToT/CT) we have EMs that helps with AP.
If you think that EMs shouldn’t be AP batteries/team building is not part of the game, then we should have another conversation first.
Yes. I played some good cardi and I agree to how boring and inefficient it is.
@aewuu I’m showing the same amount of respect that is demonstrated in this thread
lol
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Original author: aewuu (Flarum #575)
Lol.
AP generation is deliberate due to competentia’s utility and existing tools are sufficient. It’s a trade-off for having one of the strongest party wide support skill in the game.
That’s right, any EMs that knows how to play their class will grant you AP. Just like how scholars used to grant SP when jobs were limited to 2nd trans.