Add elemental armor scrolls on Muh Shop

Suggestions
1

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Akin (Flarum #861)

I would like to suggest the addition of elemental armor scrolls on cash shop since they are already available in the database. This will benefit non-shield and non-meta builds as they are more vulnerable to certain elemental one-shotting skills and spells such as NPC_XELEMENTATTACK, Grand Cross and Grand Darkness among others.

Most meta class damage are able 1-2 tap mobs thus normally bypassing the need to face any of such OHKO skills so this has little to no effect on their gameplay. While meme classes need to sacrifice their offensive armor cards by switching to armor element cards (armor cards being the best damage influencing card slots in-game) making the process of killing even longer and tedious for the already challenged builds.

Please make us memers life easier. :folded_hands:t2:

2

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: jinbou (Flarum #618)

Ehh, to be honest I don’t like the sound of that, I feel like it takes away the unique characteristics of some classes (Meister’s shapeshift skill, IG’s Piety skill) by giving them to all classes, and makes them even less relevant compared to other classes.

There are other ways to prevent getting oneshot anyway (modified senior rgan, two-eye dollocaris, a def enchant mad bunny and thunderproof/coldproof etc potions already makes getting one-shot extremely unlikely to happen in any map, can put some points in WIS too if needed). Yes doing these still means sacrificing damage too, but its by a very little amount. Having to balance offense and defense is a good aspect of the game, I don’t think going all-out on offense without having to make any adjustments for defense should be encouraged…

3

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Akin (Flarum #861)

@jinbou I have tried all of the options you stated and more. Defensive garment, DEF stone set, elemental def card. Some things CAN’T be tanked without armor properties. For instance, depth 2 Grand Darkness, I tried all other combinations of defensive gears to tank it and still died. My friend who is using a meta class haven’t even heard of that skill even existing there. Using a two-handed weapon means the defensive options are even more limited since I can’t wear shield or shield cards. Increasing WIS/STA also makes the damage weaker as many item/enchant effect scales to base traits on top of losing the damage stats itself.

Yes doing these still means sacrificing damage too, but its by a very little amount. Having to balance offense and defense is a good aspect of the game, I don’t think going all-out on offense without having to make any adjustments for defense should be encouraged…

That is already what most meta classes have been doing, offense is the best defense after all. Why bother with defense when you can dispatch enemies in a few hits. Armor card slots consists of cards such as all the gloom-like cards, NAR/GRP and even Lasgand, I wouldn’t exactly call those card effect as minimal. For non-meta classes opening up the armor slot is a game changer.

4

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: jinbou (Flarum #618)

For instance, depth 2 Grand Darkness, I tried all other combinations of defensive gears to tank it and still died. My friend who is using a meta class haven’t even heard of that skill even existing there

depth2 has… grand darkness?… Sorry, I’m also hearing that skill exists in depth2 for the first time from you :sweat_smile: I go there with my magic AC, a melee autoattacker that kills mobs rather slowly, so I eat all sorts of skills (and die very often) there, but I never noticed grand darkness before. I thought that one is only in depth1. I’m curious, which mob is it that uses it?

Why bother with defense when you can dispatch enemies in a few hits. Armor card slots consists of cards such as all the gloom-like cards, NAR/GRP and even Lasgand, I wouldn’t exactly call those card effect as minimal.

I mean, I think people who are rich enough to walk with NAR/Lasgand usually also have a GTB card, most don’t disregard defense altogether…

Anyway, these are not important, its whatever. I do empathize with the struggle in d2. I don’t get one-shot there thankfully, I guess the shield helps, but I’m dying too quickly there too ever since the recent patch where they buffed the res/mres/stats of the mobs. It’s not surprising to hear builds with no shield would get one-shot by some skills there. I feel like d2 has become a bit too difficult for everyone except 2-3 classes with specific builds after that patch (and even those classes need mvp cards if they want to farm somewhat efficiently).

While I understand the frustration, I still disagree on the suggested solution. Like I said, changing the character’s defensive element without a card is something only a few classes can do, and making it a scroll that anyone can use causes the classes with those skills to become less unique, and makes them weaker relative to other classes.

I’m fine with simple “support” skills becoming scrolls for the most part, since it just means less multiclienting, but for example shapeshift isn’t a support skill you can cast on someone else, it’s supposed to be something unique to meister. Giving that utility to other classes for free doesn’t make sense to me. I understand the problem, but I’d prefer either a different solution, or no solution at all (future patches that will increase max character level/introduce new gears will make d2 easy once again anyway, it’s just a matter of time).

5

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Akin (Flarum #861)

@jinbou

depth2 has… grand darkness?… Sorry, I’m also hearing that skill exists in depth2 for the first time from you 😅 I go there with my magic AC, a melee autoattacker that kills mobs rather slowly, so I eat all sorts of skills (and die very often) there, but I never noticed grand darkness before. I thought that one is only in depth1. I’m curious, which mob is it that uses it?

The morroc reincarnation. It’s a low chance, but when it happens it almost certainly one shots you without a bathory or near perfect shadow damage resistance. The one on depth 1 is both Grand Cross and Grand Darkness. Both are deadly but depth 2 Grand Darkness even more so due to the insane ATK of the mob.

These armor scroll does exist on kRO. It’s not something I arbitrarily made up. As certain skills triggers at certain hp threshold, low DPS/meme/shieldless classes will always be at a disadvantage from high burst/dps classes which can just bypass them entirely. These scrolls in my opinion help alleviate some woes of the unfortunate builds and make them more viable. Even with newer gears later on it will still pose a problem as inherently certain builds aren’t meant to one shot but to tank and chip down the health slowly.

I’m not requesting something as overpowered as FCP scroll (I can just dual a alchemist class) or Mystic Amp scrolls (too overpowered as it was made before the skill rework). Just something to help us non-metas to survive easier without sacrificing too much damage. Hopefully this can be considered. :folded_hands:t2:

6

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: EvilLumi (Flarum #372)

@jinbou In that case, remove agi up/bless/assumptio scrolls. Remove weapon enchant scrolls. Remove token of siegfried. Remove all the eden buffs, because it makes every class just a bit less necessary. The game is already built to make all these classes not necessary, because kro turned it into a solo-fest long ago. Stop making things more difficult for players who just want to play their solo game, and stop worrying about your trivial ideas that won’t effect anyone if they’re implemented (because people will play what they want to regardless). You’re overthinking and disregarding what already exists.

Also, those classes will always be necessary, because they provide a service, rather than an ITEM, which has a cost behind it.

7

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: jinbou (Flarum #618)

In that case, remove agi up/bless/assumptio scrolls. Remove weapon enchant scrolls.

Those scrolls are supportive buff skills that can be cast on other characters. You could already get those buffs cast on any character by multiclienting even if the scrolls didn’t exist, the scrolls merely make them more convenient to use.

Remove token of siegfried. Remove all the eden buffs, because it makes every class just a bit less necessary. The game is already built to make all these classes not necessary, because kro turned it into a solo-fest long ago. Stop making things more difficult for players who just want to play their solo game

I don’t understand how eden potions have anything to do with the topic? And I’m not opposing it “for party play” reasons or something like that anyway, sounds like you misunderstood my post.

I’m not requesting something as overpowered as FCP scroll (I can just dual a alchemist class)

In my opinion that would be a much more reasonable request, as long as its limited to pvm, since that’s also just a supportive buff skill that can be cast on any character, so the scroll would simply make it more convenient to use by removing the need to multiclient. I was also not opposed the adrenaline rush scroll suggestion in another thread because of the same reason :woman_shrugging:

or Mystic Amp scrolls (too overpowered as it was made before the skill rework)

That’s the only example so far that is actually similar to this suggestion. A self-cast non-support skill, an AM can’t just use mystical amp lvl10 on a different class to buff them. If its scroll was implemented it’d make the other magical classes stronger and make AM much weaker relatively. And I assume that’s why the suggestion to add it was rejected, even though mystical amp scrolls apparently exist on kRO too.

Shapeshift is similar, the only difference is that it’s a strong skill defensively whereas mystical amp is a strong skill offensively. Enchanting armor with one of the 4 elements is not something you could achieve with multiclienting, the scroll would provide much more than just convenience. And so I’m against it, for the same reason I’m against a mystical amp scroll. (Tbh I really dislike the concept on this one so I’d be opposed to these two suggestions regardless of if they were on kRO or not anyway, even though I’m usually in favor of following kRO as closely as possible.)

8

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Akin (Flarum #861)

That’s the only example so far that is actually similar to this suggestion. A self-cast non-support skill, an AM can’t just use mystical amp lvl10 on a different class to buff them. If its scroll was implemented it’d make the other magical classes stronger and make AM much weaker relatively. And I assume that’s why the suggestion to add it was rejected, even though mystical amp scrolls apparently exist on kRO too.

Armor element scroll isn’t remotely close to Mystical Amplification scroll case. I only mentioned it cause it’s one of the examples of items some would considered unfair if it is added. I highlighted that it was an item made prior to the rework of the skill thus if added now it would make no sense as it will cause massive shift in magic builds dynamic. I don’t think it’s even available anymore. While on the other hand you can gain access to armor element through cards, enchants and certain armors. It’s not like armor elements in itself exclusively belong to certain classes. Some of the elements isn’t even available through skills. No rational mains of classes with armor enchanting skills would cry over unfairness just from other classes having access to it.

In my opinion that would be a much more reasonable request, as long as its limited to pvm, since that’s also just a supportive buff skill that can be cast on any character, so the scroll would simply make it more convenient to use by removing the need to multiclient. I was also not opposed the adrenaline rush scroll suggestion in another thread because of the same reason 🤷‍♀️

Regarding FCP, I know you aren’t against it. But if somebody suggested FCP scroll to be added someone else would be against it preaching similar reasons such as that it doesn’t feel right or takes away the usefulness alchemists and it should only be unique to them, etc. When all it does it remove the need for dual client.

I believe I have given appropriate arguments to my suggestion based on the practicality and available options and I stand by it. Adding the scrolls is a much needed defensive defensive options for lower tier builds (shieldless and low damage builds that is susceptible to high damage skills) without further sacrificing damage from losing the armor slot. That is it. It won’t undermine the select classes with the armor element changing skills nearly as much as you said it would. Your previous argument on GTB isn’t even valid as many meta classes don’t even wear shield. This is just an addition to the defensive repertoire of the ‘balance of offense and defense’ that you mentioned much earlier, not a miracle item that would cause you to miraculously be unkillable.

I don’t think there’s anything else to add from my end. This has been dragging for too long over consumables that isn’t even game breaking. Anything else is for Muh to decide, I am fine either way.

9

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: GaoSN (Flarum #1015)

+1

For me it’s same case to Guyak Pudding which make things are playable. Put them in cash shop making us actually “pay” for it.

If people think it’s still OP then we can disable them in instances ig.

I also want parts’ chemical protection scrolls being like this too but it’s not a topic here.

10

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Arc (Flarum #1050)

+1 Omg, yes! I am an axe meister, with mado out of the question. I lost many defensive skills including shape shift and can’t even wear shield. Pretty much a punching bag with pathetic damage. :smiling_face_with_tear: The only place I think this should limit this is probably WOE or BG.

11

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: rozeluxe (Flarum #1058)

+1
IIRC kro has these scrolls too, so why not?
And we already have GTB card anyway, its unfair for shieldless classes isnt it

12

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: hayatow (Flarum #905)

@rozeluxe only holy and shadow armor scrolls afaik

13

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Akin (Flarum #861)

@hayatow http://kafra.kr/#!/en/KRO/itemdetail/23374

14

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: hayatow (Flarum #905)

hm thats interesting. well thats up to muh to decide.

15

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: SpaceHelm (Flarum #274)

-1
i believe something buff that are not being able to be given to other characters through, shouldnt be exist as scroll.
it’s the same reason why i believe Mystical Ampli scroll should not be implemented aswell .
Just let it be special to that character.

reasoning such as personal opinion that it is needed in certain situation or not, tbh arent really helping towards, why it should be implemented. since its not really applied to everyone .

Aspersio / Assumptio / Blessing etc , can be given by AB to other character , therefore the Scroll is available and i believe it is ok. (therefore i believe poison enchant scroll should be available too, but thats different suggestion)

16

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Akin (Flarum #861)

@SpaceHelm

i believe something buff that are not being able to be given to other characters through, shouldnt be exist as scroll.

Armor element isn’t exclusively available as buffs.. The scrolls already existed in the database. Like someone mentioned above, guyak is basically a geneticist cart boost for everyone. Should we remove it? I wonder how many would cry if it was removed if we follow this logic.

reasoning such as personal opinion that it is needed in certain situation or not, tbh arent really helping towards, why it should be implemented. since its not really applied to everyone .

Do you know how ‘personal opinion’ is the foundation for all suggestions? Hence why suggestion thread like this on why something should or shouldn’t be added exist. Like the poison enchant scroll you suggested, which literally doesn’t exist btw. You and that one guy who opposes it have your own opinions on the matter. Also kinda hypocritical of you, when poison element scroll/extended enchant poison doesn’t apply to magic classes or classes with poison ammunition. So it is not applicable for ‘everyone’ as you mentioned. When armor properties are beneficial to everyone, regardless of builds.

17

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Akin (Flarum #861)

Pardon me if this sounds rude or offensive to anyone but I have to put this out here. The reasoning of ‘this buff/skill should be exclusive to such and such classes’ is totally nonsensical to me.

From the beginning we have had hiding, cloaking, auto-guard, double attack, endure, attention concentrate, berserk, self-provoke, greed, among others accessible through other means be it by cards or consumables. Some of these have really good practical use or provide significant buffs. It isn’t anything new.

Even maximize power and shield spell is available through equips, (maximixe power from amistr garment on kro if anyone is wondering) you just need to swap the equips to use them. Which makes it no different from consumables. You could say AA magic chaser can cast Mystical Amplification albeit in a more roundabout way. So I don’t know how this reasoning comes about.

18

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: MadMonkey (Flarum #165)

-1
This is exactly what those elemental armor cards are for.
Gimping your damage output a bit in the process is an acceptable trade-off.

@rozeluxe we already have GTB card anyway, its unfair for shieldless classes isnt it

Not even remotely similar.
GTB isn’t actually limited to anyone (provided you drop it and have an equip you can slot it in, as any other card).
Also we do have elemental armor cards, unlimited to any classes either.

@Akin guyak is basically a geneticist cart boost for everyone

Nah.
Guyak are a separate movespeed buff that happens to have the same value.
Nothing to do with Cart Boost (possibly pre-dated it even).

All in all, nothing truly gamebreaking, but I’d rather the server be consistent.
Either they implement any existing self targeted buffs scrolls in, or none at all.

19

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Akin (Flarum #861)

@MadMonkey

Nothing to do with Cart Boost (possibly pre-dated it even).

Guyak Pudding was added on 2015, Cart Boost is a third job skill so it was added on episode 13-14 which some time during 2010 if I am not mistaken. They are not the same buff but they give the same exact effect. Similar to the armor scrolls don’t give the exact buff from existing skills but one similar to it.

The rest of your arguments I have already address somewhere up there. I don’t want to repeat myself.

20

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: SpaceHelm (Flarum #274)

@Akin

As i was saying, in MUHRO, most of the scroll on the shop is a buff that can be given by other character. So i would love to have that consistency.

And cards is different story. In MUH every card will always be released no matter how broken / usefull it is. U need to see the different.

U talk about how maximize power etc, do we have it in Muhro? Or just in kro?

Just because it is in dtabase kro / muh, doesnt mean it should alwaya be implemented.

Let me clear you up about the personal opinion. The good suggestion, should always think of the level of neccessary to other people aswell. Your reasoning that state u want rhe item to be implemented, just because it exist / just because u want it to have, doesnt have a strong ground gor suggestion to be implemented. Thats why i called it personal / or i guess its too subjective.

Its the same as if i suggest > “i want for every poring to drop 1 bsb everytime i kill it” , just because u think its nice for everyone, its really not necessary for me / everyone to have that.

And as MadMonket said, u mention hiding / Autoguard / cloaking etc can be obtained! Therefore i could say, u can also get the armor element from card too.. just incase u dong know

Pasana for fire / bathory for dark / evil druid for undead.. wwhy dont u use that instead? If u gonna cry that it lower ur damage output, then ita just better to directly asking my suggestion (1 poring kill = 1 bsb), that way u can be stronger and farm better. Rather than just asking a element scroll.

I havent checked about poison enchant scroll, since i believe it was exist in my previous server, and because i know, i still can get it With the help of alt character