Zerocell slight nerf?

Suggestions
41

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Akin (Flarum #861)

@Siocane I have to say, that’s a terrible opinion. It gives that ‘Let them eat cake’ vibe. Just remove most classes except for the most meta if so.

Most classes weren’t build for this level of custom content, only a few builds have the utility to counter or dish out enough burst damage to farm comfortably. This just exacerbate the class/build gaps even further. Since this is tied to official content, non-meta are forced to farm elsewhere to get the money to buy the new content materials let alone experiencing it themselves or switch to a meta slave.

42

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: hoegenaamd (Flarum #1246)

@Jetago after reading all these replies I think now I’m swayed more to your side, even doubling it down somewhat. Now even 90% reduction (x10 damage from now, same as official) doesn’t look that too far fetched.

As the current 99% I do agree with someone that said it should be nightmare mode or something. More rewards or something, but the baseline which is the normal mode, could be lowered to 90% as said. Puritanically official on this matter is my stand now

43

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: hoegenaamd (Flarum #1246)

My concern now are economical: meta farmer will farm on the normal mode(90% reduc) instead of the place they’re supposed to be in (nightmare mode 99% reduc). My solution is to make everything dropped from the normal mode permanently account bound, forever. While those drops from nightmare mode are tradable and as well as the equips (reformed Encroached series) that will be tradable later.

Another catch for this case will be that normal mode mats can’t be used on nightmare mode equips, but nightmare mode mats can be used on normal mode equips.

Last thing will be that normal mode equipments are not applicable on nightmare mode and vice versa. This will force asset diversification and specializations without disturbing un-intended audience targeting (normal modes for non meta, non economic first player, nightmare mode for meta economic player). And this solution can be applied universally for future contents as well (normal mode zerocell equips can only be used on normal mode future contents)

44

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Jetago (Flarum #331)

uuh sounds like a weird solution tbh, especially the part of restricting items

The thing is, why even touching the official content? If we follow kRO we can just stick to that, If it had been like that from the beginning, nobody would be complaining about this suggestion, (nor would the suggestion have existed) if ever wanted to add custom hard content, we already have things like Alice madness, why not adding more things like that and just let the official stuff be as it is in the official version?

However, I suppose what happens depends on Muh

45

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: hoegenaamd (Flarum #1246)

@Jetago it’s too easy for too large percentage of players if we 100% stick to the official contents without modification, that would cause the case of my first reply “contents too easy/solo ragnarok online” narrative. I know because I talk to too many people, even if I don’t really believe it as my own personal opinion.

And yea it’s weird because it’s not a finished solution. Just an idea.

46

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: karunatan (Flarum #555)

I’m, for once, fully on the side of this suggestion. Yes, I know, party content is THE thing and party play is encouraged here. Allowing a percent or two more damage for non-meta players doesn’t take away from partying. People who want to party, will still party.

Sure, I have a character than can party up easily (read: cardinal). No, right now I don’t have the mental state for partying with a bunch of people I don’t know - and forcing me to do so just so I can get gears for more non-meta things is not fun. I play this game to have fun, enjoy my time and relax.

Actually, there’s absolutely nothing in those maps for my main class. But I have other things I’m trying to gear up at my own pace, on my own terms. I see nothing wrong with this suggestion. +1.

47

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Jetago (Flarum #331)

@hoegenaamd from my point of view I don’t really see the problem with that, if i can consider something is easy, it means I’m already at that point, I’m geared enough to make it easy; I’m not building gear for no reason, but in this case, (the current state of zerocell) even being fully geared isn’t enough

48

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Average (Flarum #615)

i also vouch for this suggestion +1

49

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: yurizeta (Flarum #846)

I agree with the minor nerf as well. With the change to increase crit shield of the monsters being accepted I think we need to re balance the other stats as it will become very hard for crit based classes to balance Dmg,HP,resist,DEF/MDEF,PRES/MRES and now Crit.

50

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Muh (Flarum #1)

As to the why:
When I saw this content on KRO, my first thought was: how boring, just another headless farming dungeon.

So my idea was neither pushing party play fully (no party loot) and neither make it easy soloable.
What I really liked is how many players started theorycrafting about how to succeed in this place. I don’t want to you to be able to run into a group of monsters mindlessly, ignoring whatever is there. Then we could simply put porings in there and call it a day.
What I’m not saying is that it’s a perfect state - some hotfixes were applied on release day and some more finetuning will be added.

51

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Jetago (Flarum #331)

My biggest problem with content customization, and the reason I made this suggestion, is that because of the class I play, I’m at a huge disadvantage.

Since I play a class that can be considered a meme, things that might be difficult for the meta-classes are even more difficult for me.

I don’t have utility skills for a party; my DPS isn’t relevant for a party. That’s why I don’t like joining parties and prefer to do things alone. I don’t want to feel like a burden.

But with ZeroCell, the customization reached a point where it’s excessive; the 99% damage reduction is just too much.

With all that in mind, I have practically no options, and that’s very frustrating…

52

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Akin (Flarum #861)

@Muh Maybe consider buffing the non-meta builds as well and not just the content. Since we are not strictly following kro anymore, may want to consider that. Let every build tackle it in their way, by giving them a fighting chance. Make everything balanced not just on the pvm side but the classess repertoire as well. I personally dislike this option, since I am normally against customization of official stuff. However since the can of worms is already opened, better go all in and make it enjoyable for everyone w/o forcing people to certain builds.

53

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Muh (Flarum #1)

I see room for slight tweaks, so don’t hesitate to reopen a new discussion after the next patch.

54

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Jetago (Flarum #331)

well, after spending one hour in Lux post-patch, drop rates got nerfed while the mobs in there are still as sucky to deal with (or worse)

my last post in this thread :victory_hand:

55

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Eneru (Flarum #1119)

Hello! After 2 weeks since the last post, i went to try it again to give some feedback.

In the past weeks we got changes like:
- Decreased Lux/Nox drop rates but made Vita/Ark party loot.
- Increased mobs Critical Shield by 100.
- % reduction of the mobs untouched (still custom 99%).
- More mob minions ( = more damage coming our way ).
- Tweaked some mob skills (though some still one hit if not build specifically against it).

What i feel like with the current state on the new Zero Cell:
- Vita/Ark are in a pretty good spot. Some jobs can solo farm there, but bringing a party is worth it.
- Lux/Nox can still only be solo farmed by some meta jobs and GTB is almost mandatory.

Feedback:
- Reduce % reduction as this original post suggested to Lux/Nox, but keep it 99% in Vita/Ark.
- Strip and equipment break feels more annoying than anything. You just go back to city, heal, equip, return.
- Make Abrasive effect to not be lost on death.

Conclusion:
I understand the sentiment to not make these new maps, “poring maps”, where we can run into a bunch of mob, throw a skill, kill everything and move on to the next mobs. In this regard, i think the offensive potential of the mobs already play around that, in the majority of cases. But keeping the reduction this high on the “lower levels” just gatekeep the content from non-meta jobs/builds.

I waited until i got almost finished my Dim. World Execution Boots (sitting at +15, enchants at 5/5/5) to test again and bring this feedback to you. And it validated my opinion on that the content is biased towards meta builds.

We all know the damage formula is not balanced and some builds are just plain stronger than others. But with enough min-max i feel you could always reach some point of “equality”. Up until Zero Cell. And i think it’s pretty obvious it’s only because of the % reduction change.

I could add: Why use most of the official metrics but not the one keeping many jobs away? I always loved the QoL stuff in this server, following the official minus those times it can be improved for good (i’m still thankful that HoL enchants can’t downgrade here).
So i say we separate Lux/Nox as easier levels and Vita/Ark as harder. Think of them as normal and nightmare versions. You could even lower the drop rates some more on Lux/Nox.

TL/DR: Nerf % reduction on Lux/Nox.

56

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: xosofiya (Flarum #805)

Hiii! I’m almost done with my stuff too.

Crown at lvl 7 Great Craftsman, Frontier Weapon +15, Boots (W, 5, 5)

I admit i had to rely on my friends to get here (getting carried in Ark runs- thank you besties :growing_heart: ) before i had the ability to “solo” Lux (solo in “” cause i’m still slow as heck haha).

I think one of the biggest hurdles is the extremely high damage of the mobs… there is almost no space for the “in-between” builds. It’s like “shield” classes got useless cause even if you’re wearing a shield + Alice + a few other HP/resist gears, you still drop like a fly with 1 touch unless you really give up almost 80% of your damage stuff.
Dealt with this by having high HP + Life Steal + extra high MDEF + high Flee + wind elemental resistance (looking at you insta cast Varetyr Spear :anger_symbol: ), but it is not doable for most non-meta classes

I think finding ways to make it “creatively” difficult like implementing the Neutral Barrier skill of Mechanic (which was actually a nice surprise) and not just difficult by getting 1 tapped by mobs all the time is a really good path(?)

Another note, the push for party play is really nice. But relying on just partying also kinda defeats the purpose of the dungeon not being “mindless” cause ultimately, you just try to join a party of strong people and you just follow them to get your loots after buffing/cosplaying as doing damage (when you’re actually not and you also reward the ABs with the additional job of res-ing you cause everything one shots) which is as… mindless as it can be.

I admit, the challenge to find how you can survive and solo it as it is currently was fun, but it def needs some tweaks for other classes :cherry_blossom:

Edit: I think ultimately, difficulty should not just defined as getting 1 tapped by monsters all the time.

57

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: telu (Flarum #782)

@xosofiya Edit: I think ultimately, difficulty should not just defined as getting 1 tapped by monsters all the time.

Yeah I think that’s the most important aspect. I don’t really have a problem with dragon breath or sorcerer aoe one shotting because those have a long cast time so if you pay attention you can dodge them.

But targeted ranged skills with little or no cast time shouldn’t do that much damage because there isn’t a lot we can do to avoid them, so either have them do reduced damage or make them avoidable by being ground targeted.

Edit : I wanna add that in the current state we’re not far from having a good balance with the monsters having well defined roles that force you to think how you should engage them and which ones to prioritize in a pack. It just needs a bit more tuning on the damage and skills used

58

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: meep0_o (Flarum #1684)

@xosofiya +1 to this