Nif2 needs a competitor

[Powertothenovice]

Title: Put a CHEAP box in mjolnir

Description:
I know there’s quite a few endgame maps to farm, but most of them results in materials that are not liquid or moves extremely slow, therefore making Nif2 the default winner in moving zenies fast and farming at all levels (mid-endgame) outside of instance farming. So if we’re talking field farming specifically, Nif2 is uncontested.

BB Drop for grote is 2.8% with x1 and 30% drop rate gear character and bbg, while timber is 3.63%. So per bbg session if you kill on average 1500 grote/timber you can expect an average of 42BB in Nif2 and 54BB in mjolnir. That’s 12 BB difference which is around 24m in zeny. But Nif2 have boxes that sells for 50-55m per bbg session, making it vastly superior.

So my suggestion is simple, add a 20-25k box (half or less than half the price of Nif2 boxes) to mjolnir maps. Make it the same drop rate as Nif boxes. So you’d get around 25-27m per bbg session on boxes in mjolnir, bringing the gap much closer. It can now be a true competitor to Nif2.

Why is this a good idea?
BB/MVP hunting is the endgame right now and for the foreseeable future. Everyone and their grandma will want BB either to sell to MVP hunters (which moves really fast) or to use themselves. Which makes Nif2 really good, since every other end game map only drops materials that other vets buy and most of the time, vets farm themselves, which makes the drop very illiquid (moves really really slow). Example, if you farm FTZ conta zones for a whole week, you would quite literally crash the HoL market for energies, bringing down your zeny/hour way below Nif2 where it’s constant.

What risks or downsides does it have?
Not sure, aside from now having 2 maps where people realistically farm for BB.

Additional Info:
In summary; per bbg session -

1. Nif2 gives 42BB and 50-55m in boxes
2. Mjolnir gives 54BB and no boxes
3. Make mjolnir drop cheap boxes (20-25k in price to NPC)

[brozenwall]

I support this, I just want more places that worth famring.

[telu]

Why stop at mjo, make ever farming spot give 100m per bbg. D1, D2, FTZ, yorscalp, in fact all those places are harder to farm than niff2 so they should give even more zeny. Add BB and weapon box to all of them so this way every farming spot is the same

This post was obviously sarcastic and I’m against your idea. The only part I’m serious about is that if you want to artificially alter how much z a map can generate then you should focus on making harder maps more valuable than mid game places like niff2 or mjo

-1

[Powertothenovice]

By all means, add those suggestions. Make harder maps more valuable for sure. I’m okay with that suggestion too. This suggestion is mainly to help newer players since mjo and Nif2 is newbie friendly and accessible and not require endgame gears like chapter1 or late-game gears for FTZ/yorscalp.

Sure, make your suggestion happen. I don’t mind.

[kaiakaito]

I agree on that.
Same as for Eden Coins (Suggested earlier) later maps has like no true value in term of zeny and items.
Its incredible that how effective Niff2 is but its insane how it outclass any map even the one for which is a alternative for Bloody Branches.
I mean adding BB’s to any map would be kinda crazy, I think some kind of Boxes and other things would be a good beginning and funny enough increasing value to some boxes would help aswell.

I also want to add (was thinking of suggestion that) some items from later and newer episodes/chapter dont have any value at the Npc, making those places even worse!

So Big +1 from me

[Mysto]

As a player/farmer that enjoy min/max my char and farming methods, Mjo is already better than Nif2 on zeny income (not raw zeny) it doesn’t need boxes to compete with frontier ninja wep you can get up to 100 bbs + 600 zelus every 30 min (and this is an average we have been farming many more than this one) and that class requires really no skill in order to get 250m+ worth of zeny every 30 mins, if you add boxes on top of it this will cause an imbalance on the economy.

Im up to get a new map but would like it to be more challenging that Nif2/Mjo kinda between Bio B & Yor Temple 2, that way farmers that already completed theirs chars can move from the other 2 previous maps.

Summary: Don’t add boxes to Mjo its already better than Nif2 but up to the idea of adding a new more challenging map that has BBs.

[telu]

D1 is the perfect map to add BB to imo, it’s harder than most maps and currently has no reason to be farmed beside reputation to reach D2. Plus, it has tree monsters.

[Feng]

That is a terrible idea. Expanding Bloody Branches beyond Nif2 and Mjolnir would just push for an influx of mvp cards and would lower the value of BBs. At the same time, D1 is something that should be farmed, because those armors are still valuable, and still hold a good value today, so now, you’re double dipping on rather expensive components, potential for upgrading and obtaining near end-game armor and could potentially hoard thousands of Bloody Branches. Bloody branches should not be a market that is NOT limited. It needs to remain stagnant, or a lot of value will be lost and a lot of people will not be happy with the result.

[telu]

The drop rates can be tuned in all 3 maps to keep the BB generation stable.

And I’m sorry but no, depth armors are obsolete content. While they outperform nebula armors they get outscaled by nebula getting bonuses from the accessory and garment combo, so nobody crafts depth armors anymore. They might be a good item for alts that you don’t plan to scale all the way to end game, but otherwise when you need to upgrade from mid game armors there’s no reason to get those to 12A.

The only 3 things you get out of D1 farming nowadays are samples for exping alts, heirlooms and shadow stones.

[Feng]

The way you describe this map and these armors, makes it seem like you don’t really care for
them at all, so why do you want to suddenly farm there?

[telu]

It’s a cool map, and the only “late game” map that you don’t have anything worth to farm on.

[kaiakaito]

Problem we face is by fact how to make maps attractive.
I mean, yes we could easy put Bloody Branches on other maps too (Like Power Plains, D1 and so on).
But I think giving special worthwhile loot is an option too. I mean why is Nif2 so good? BB Drops and Boxes with good value.
Mjo Cave only have BB’s, imagine it having Boxes like Nif2 aswell (Like Safety/Flush Weapon Boxes) and other maps aswell.

And there is the Eden Coin problem where peeps are forced to grind Odin Past/Abyss4/Second Powerplant in order to get Coins for needed Buffs/Manuels/Bubbles.
Both can be combined which im in favor for but I dunno how to make it equal without Bloody Branches tbh.

[Skyrius]

The drop rates can be tuned in all 3 maps to keep the BB generation stable.

Don’t nerf farming for newer people on the server again, please?
We already got hit by the Zenny nerf recently.

Sure, you can add another source of BB, but the amount of available BBs is still dictated by how many people are farming it, not by how many maps drop it.
Adding another source doesn’t mean it will suddenly 2x the amount of produced BBs.

Also, it was the Zenny nerf that is making this “issue” more prevalent…

Maybe buff Zenny drop from later maps instead of adding more sources of BBs/change current farming maps?

-1 Anyway from me, I still don’t agree with any of these suggestions.
People who are truly at endgame has another sources of farm on valuables resources, such as Chapter 1, ZeroCell, Bio B, and Chapter 2/Depths 2 is right around the corner.

Also, people have to realise that there are is only a few people that can actually farm Chapter1+ because… it’s like 20b+ in gear to get to that point.
The investment necessary to get to endgame on this server is insanely high.
Don’t nerf/change the current means newer players have to get to said endgame.

[telu]

The zeny drop nerf was made to reduce inflation and it affected late game maps the most, so it’s very unlikely that they’ll change it back. I would be personally glad if they did but I wouldn’t count on it.

And please do not use the “poor new players” argument when the current discourse they hear is “get the gear to farm Niff2 then stay there forever”, because I think this state of things is way worse for the new player experience than having a slightly less optimal Niff2 zeny farm but harder, more interesting farming maps to look forward too.

[Skyrius]

And please do not use the “poor new players” argument when the current discourse they hear is “get the gear to farm Niff2 then stay there forever”, because I think this state of things is way worse for the new player experience than having a slightly less optimal Niff2 zeny farm but harder, more interesting farming maps to look forward too.

Yes, because making the grind to endgame take even longer is the solution /sarcasm

Niff2, and by extension, Mjolnir, are the only viable source of income for newer players BECAUSE it takes so much time to get to endgame and BECAUSE bloody branches are the only actually valuable resource they can farm.

Nerfing the current maps to farm BB won’t help new players or alleviate the issues. It only makes it worse.

Requiring more gear to farm BB optimally won’t help new players or alleviate the issue. It only makes it worse.

Again, like I said: “Sure, you can add another source of BB”. Just don’t touch current options.

However, I am still personally against most suggestions pointed out in this thread.

Also, as I pointed out:
“People who are truly at endgame has another sources of farm on valuables resources, such as Chapter 1, ZeroCell, Bio B, and Chapter 2/Depths 2 is right around the corner.”

There is also the CT and HoL mat farmers chads who spam those, which is very profitable.

@telu, I am a new player. I started on this server 3 months ago, so I very much know what I am talking about when it comes to “poor new players”. I know the struggles. I have had several friends quit because of the giant wall required to do anything here. Nerfing the current ways to achieve anything here is not the way. Go ahead and add alternatives, sure, but like I said, don’t touch the current maps.

[telu]

So when you’re saying “it’s bad for new players” what you mean is “it’s bad for me”? Maybe you lack the perspective to discuss this topic objectively.

[Skyrius]

I gave my arguments explaining my points.

However, it is very much impossible to discuss this topic 100% objectively.

Much like you have your own subjectivity looking at the issue as a Veteran Player, I am giving my perspective as a newer player, that is shared by a lot of players in the same situation.

We can very well get into the philosophy behind human perception and reasoning, and it’s effects on subjectivity, but I don’t think this is a forum to discuss it.