There have been multiple suggestions over time for making the different late game crowns (TDRC, Yorscalp, Frontier) less frustrating to enchant, the goal of this thread is to compile them.
Suggestion : add the following options for the rightmost and center enchants of those items : Time Dimension Rune Crown, Yorscalp Crown, Frontier Crown
First enchant (rightmost slot, raw stat) : add a way to reroll the stat without having to fully reset and upgrade it, just like Nebula armors
Second enchant (center slot) : add a way to upgrade the enchant (lv1 to 2, 2 to 3 and for yorscalp 3 to 4)
These changes aim to reduce the RNG aspect of enchantment and the frustration that comes with it. To counterbalance the improvement in comfort it needs to have an important cost.
This way players could invest resource in the most important enchant of their hats and still be able to minmax later to get the perfect stats on the less important enchants.
The problem with “compiling” a list of changes is that its easier to reject all instead of accepting some and rejecting some. It also potentially holds up items we could immediately add when another item is under debate. At least that’s my opinion and if I were to vote on this as is, I would vote no.
First enchant/Stat reroll already exists for at least Frontier and TDRC. Yorscalp could use this though. +1 there.
Second enchant, I’m more inclined to disagree with. IMO If we do upgrades, I would personally suggest limiting it to crowns with level 4 enchants. Rolling a lv3 is not that bad. Sure some people may be bothered by the RNG aspect, but RO is basically RNG based everything. I would prefer the odds just be higher as they are abysmally low. Or a pity system where maybe every roll increases the odds of A lv3 or lv4 roll by .05% or something.
I personally am not frustrated by these mechanics. I see no reason to take away the RNG aspect, though I do see reason to adjust the odds. I see something less than perfect and it gives reason to improve or work towards something. Sure you can get lucky and actually minmax everything, but being less than perfect adds uniqueness to the game. Taking that away puts a wall down on upgrades and says "ok you’re done, “you’ve minmaxed everything through upgrades, there is no improvement”.
As you say above, you yourself draw the line about what’s acceptable as RNG rolling to lvl 3 enchants, and think lvl 4 enchants need some tuning. This is subjective, and you’re free to have your own tastes about how much RNG people should have to deal with, but you should understand that everyone has their preferences and there’s no right or wrong amount of RNG.
Middle enchants on crowns are min max territory, if you take the Concentration Jewel on TDRC/FRC for example the difference between lvl 2 and 3 is : 24 atk, 24 hit, 4% non crit and 1% long range. Those difference are very minor and when you’re low on resources (either because it’s your first char or you’re just poor) it’s frustrating to have to spend so much on such a meaningless stat.
And my whole point is that : players shouldn’t have to be locked out of minmaxing these stats before they access to the much stronger and important last enchant.
With my suggestion you have the choice : either keep rolling and get the lvl 3 at the beginning or settle for a lower level and come back to it later, for a price. This suggestion doesn’t aim to remove RNG completely, but to add another way for people to spend their resource. It just needs to be correctly balanced in terms of resource and zeny needed, just like circulation of life signets.
Personal opinions are subjective by nature. If they weren’t - they wouldn’t be personal opinions. I fully understand other people have opinions on the matter. My opinion has been stated and I still vote -1 as a whole to this. I do believe there is a right amount of RNG. RO is RNG based and should stay consistent with that.
But they aren’t locked out. They can roll again to try and get it or they can buy it off someone lucky enough to get it. Adding the upgrade option would devalue the crowns that already have high enchants and wouldn’t exactly be fair to those that already spent a great deal on “upgrading” to a higher level enchant.
I still think having unique items with different stat rolls adds value to the refining experience.. What about instead of just a straight upgrade, a chance to upgrade like slot 2? That’s kind of a middle ground in my mind. It gives you the option to come back to it later, but still keeps a bit of the “uniqueness in RNG” factor.
Edit: Too add, HoL Signets have always had the options they have now. It’s also impossible to say if the natural economy of signets (i.e. players doing/not doing CT/HoL/LoF) changed their value or if the guaranteed roll had impact on it. They don’t sell in vends frequently enough to make that determination.
And so it’s also impossible to say if the addition of those suggestions would have an impact on the price of the crowns. Unless they’re grossly unbalanced obviously, but that’s not what we’re looking for here.
Edit : alternatively, another suggestion I could add is to allow to keep rerolling the mid enchant on crowns after adding the last one. Would that be a better suggestion for you ?
I will always be against comments like this. Oh no the billionaries in the server will loose a bit of value. Let the new people play with better options instead please. -1 on anything Pickles has said in this thread.
I’m not sure why you are picking me out here. it does nothing to help any.. “argument” you have provided.
I’m not rich, I’ve never been rich. I craft and do everything myself by farming it out. I have 120m right now and rarely do I have more than a few hundred.
Half the server can easily out DPS me, and you’re still asking for “easier” upgrades. If anyone should be asking, it SHOULD be me. I’m much weaker and likely poorer.
So your point is kinda.. moot lol.
If you do not have anything constructive to add to this conversation other than “billionaire” bashing (which would ironically include Telu lol), please find another forum to troll.
Back on topic..
You’re right. It is impossible to make that determination with the data we currently have. But just.. think about it? Obviously a crown that rolled really high and has value is going to be devalued if people can simply make their own by upgrading. All of a sudden those few rare crowns have multiplied into hundreds and are no longer rare.
You’re right. It is impossible to make that determination with the data we currently have. But just.. think about it? Obviously a crown that rolled really high and has value is going to be devalued if people can simply make their own by upgrading. All of a sudden those few rare crowns have multiplied into hundreds and are no longer rare.
Isn’t that how progression works? Eventually outdated or less rare stuff gets devalued. HoL Signet got the enchant selectable option well after I’ve done made my own, that took close to 30 tries. Was I salty when the option for perfect enchant was added? No. Cause I know the pain and I don’t wish it upon others. If you don’t prefer RNG just don’t use it. Feel free to gamba. Many people has lost billions just to get the enchant they want and some still fails and gave up.
Sure, that’s how progression works. That is to say, eventually things get out dated and stuff gets devalued. Adding an option to guarantee a roll does not make the gear progress further, nor does it mean it’s outdated.
I’m REALLY tired of the “If you don’t prefer [X] just don’t do [Y]” crap. It’s not an argument. It does nothing to help prove your point. And it is not why I am posting. IMO there should be a rule that auto deletes your post when posting this.
On top of that, you really think I have gone through this entire game with no RNG? You know how much it cost me to make my first Neb signet? 3B. Why? Cause it wouldn’t roll and I’m not lucky. I spent a long time farming and buying meteor fragments trying to get the roll I wanted. So don’t presume to think I haven’t “gone through the pain” either. I still don’t think this is a good change for the server and I am still against it.
I mostly agree with pickles, not a big fan of completely removĂng the RNG aspect, at least part of it should be retained
Adding an option to reroll the 4th slot of Yorscalp Crown; sure, it can already be done with TDRC and FRC, so why not? +1 to that.
Adding perfect enchant or upgrade options to 3rd slots; -1 to that tbh, however I wouldn’t disagree with adjusting the odds to give a higher chance of getting the higher enchantment levels because I agree, 0.5% chance of getting a level 4 enchantment in Yorscalp crown is too low
Adding an option to reroll 3rd slots; i guess it’s not that bad, retains the RNG aspect but gives the opportunity to advance to the 2nd slot and go back to the 3rd slot later, neutral on this point but slightly inclined to +1
Nothing personal just that you are the one making those comments. Only people who have already crafted and want to profit off of people who haven’t crafted said items want the items to stay hard to craft to keep the artificial scarcity, and as result, the prices up.
Im not against you, Im agains the type of arguments you are making for not making the crown easier to enchant, so I “singled you out” because you were the only one at that point to make any comments arguing against making the crown easier to enchant based on “my crown will devaluate”, not because of who you are or anything like that
Also being a billionarie doesnt mean you have billions in raw zenny. It means you are worth billions. If you are able to farm for, craft, and enchant TDRC in the server that means you are very much above the average player. The fact that most of the people who have stuck around and played for years out-dps you has absolutely nothing to do with your argument, its a moot defense.
Your argument is “keep progression hard because now that I can I want to profit off of it”/“It was hard for me to craft it, so it needs to stay hard for anyone else who crafts it”, which is the type of argument I will always be against.
That would be in line with what happens to Temporal Circlets iirc. That seems reasonable.
It becomes personal when you directly call someone out and insult them by calling them “a billionaire” in a negative context and “-1 everything [X] says”.
You make a lot of presumptions about me, I don’t have a LOT of things crafted. I don’t have one of these rare crowns, so “my crown will be devalued”.. is not what I said. I don’t even have a finished Yorscalp crown and the TDRC I do have are nothing to write home about.
And there’s nothing “artificial” about these items scarcity. They’re SUPPOSED to be rare or hard to obtain.
That’s not my argument all. If anything my argument is more “It’s supposed to be hard”. I don’t even sell the vast majority of my gear.. I have one piece of snow armor up for sale cause I didn’t have a matching set/gave away the other pieces to someone at some point. The rest of it goes to alts or gathers dust in storage. Yes, things WOULD be devalued, but that’s only PART of my argument and it actually would only affect me by costing me more to acquire something. I want the items I acquire to be unique and hold value in terms of rarity, not just Zeny. If everyone is walking around with Lv4 Yorscalp crowns, what do I have to value out of mine?
But now that you’ve said it. I fully want the game to stay difficult, because its supposed to be. We already have increased drop rates, meaning its already faster to accumulate the mats needed for an upgrade than an official server. Should we increase mat drop rates some more to make things easier too?
I understand what “being a billionaire” means. And actually the argument for being out-DPSed is pretty valid. Given this update would actually increase my DPS by giving me access to enchants I don’t have (You’re assuming I HAVE these enchants and this rare gear).
Everything you’ve said has been founded in presumptions about me.
