Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: intrepidenigma (Flarum #387)
Description:
The current reward system follows x amount of time spent inside castle as well an additional box for castle holders. Suggest reworking the rewards to incentivize guilds to play the WoE SE objectives.
Why is this a good idea?
The reward system we have now, players can just enter the castle engage each other, rinse and repeat.
Overall, it’s been BG conquest atmosphere during WoE SE to be blunt.
What risks or downsides does it have?
Impossible for me to say, each player will take this differently (good? bad? they don’t care? neutral?).
Additional Info:
I don’t have the slightest idea on how to rework it to incentivize guilds to play the objectives and actually GvG (Guild vs Guild).
So lets have a discussion on this please, would love to hear from the rest of the community.
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: thatcher (Flarum #482)
Would love to see a rework on the entire reward system. Currently, players can just enter the castle, walk around and avoid doing the objective or participating in GvG and still get the woe rewards. With this, some guilds don’t feel the need to make proper PvP gears.
I think we should include playing the Objective as basis for getting the rewards. something like number of pots used, skills casted, damage taken, damage done, barricade and emperium hits etc.
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Xenri (Flarum #1328)
skill casted is one thing, but damage done will only make support class suffer.
damage taken or number of pots used still doesnt fix the issue of people not doing anything.
Honestly, you can’t force people to make proper gears, especially when they’re not that cheap either XD unless you just go for a ‘good enough’ gear. I do see a big gap in terms of gear power though, especially some of the people new to BG/WoE. if the upcoming rental gear can at least make them strong enough to fight, it would be great. They can rely on the rentals, sure, but if they really want to make themself stronger they’d try to make a gear and maximize it. like say, the rental would be 70% of what a maxed build would be ? maybe +10 eqs instead of +11/12, that would make the enchants weaker if they just rely purely on the rentals
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: thatcher (Flarum #482)
@Xenri skill casted is one thing, but damage done will only make support class suffer.
There are infinite ways of going around this, making it a guild criteria instead of individual player criteria would fix that issue.
Disregarding damage done and focusing on other stats for certain classes would also fix it.
@Xenri especially when they’re not that cheap either
It takes no more than 600m to fully gear an entire character and even cheaper for support classes.
The point that I’m trying to make is that if you want to obtain the WoE rewards, You must do the real WoEing. Can’t expect to get rewards for simply entering the castle and spending time sightseeing.
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: aewuu (Flarum #575)
No one should ever be 100% reliant on rentals.
Pvm and zeny making in this server is a breeze, some players here consider PvP as the absolute end-game and that is why they invest heavily on the gear.
There is no way to “force people to make proper gear”, that’s true. With that mentality, they should not get the “proper rewards” then.
That’s similar to people who don’t have end game equips for HoL, shouldn’t receive level 20 Hol rewards.
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: kaiakaito (Flarum #244)
Still its a problem when:
-New players join with simple gear
-Gets slaughtert by elite guilds with +15 gear
.-They stop playing all together
Even worse for peeps who relay on def gear. Defence has no real scaling. Just enough Med Resis and nothing can be done, weapon Dps builds can scale way higher (+15 weapon/hg/armor and more) and just kill tanky dudes in 2 hits lol
Reworking the system means to find something everyone can work with and reworking the power level all together (Like making refine Cap to +12 and stuff).
And 600m are 600m. INvesting in casual Bg and 1 woe each week or invest in your long term Pve char you play every day? We need motivation and good balanced and close the gap between super elites and new peeps.
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: intrepidenigma (Flarum #387)
Some of us here have a pure PvP mentality thus all resources go into being the elite player in the scene. Why restrict and cap things for those who strictly have a mind set of PvP only? PvP is unforgiving, it’s not as clear cut and fair in PvM. Let’s use PvM here as an example, PvM players who are unable to to a content, let’s say HoL. What must that player do? They must invest into better gear to be able to finish (in this case hit HoL level 20).
There will be players who have knowledge, experience, and “elite” gears playing. Now one must decide either to step up and play with the them or decide to yield. Again unforgiving content. The only way to close the gap is to invest and get better gear. Not only that, learn what your role can and cannot do. What your role is expected to do in GvGs; as well learn to play with synergy with your guild.
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: aewuu (Flarum #575)
@kaiakaito
Nah, I don’t think limiting refines at +12 would make much a difference.
At this point, +15 gears are just a novelty.
What wins woe is teamwork, listening to your leader/shotcaller and being disciplined.
Astrologia is a pvm guild, and it only had 1-2 people who were avid pvpers. None of us have +15s, except @“intrepidenigma”#387 here, but he’s a new recruit anyway. Prior to that, we’ve always fought him. Infact, our guild had fought against +15/+16s and we did well with our +11/+12s
Anyway, players that want to be involved in pvp has to be resilient. It’s not a 1 man show. Besides as you said it yourself, its just a matter of priorities. You choose to work on your pvm character, and others choose to work on their pvp characters.
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: thatcher (Flarum #482)
@kaiakaito what is it with you guys and the constant phobia of +15 gears? The difference between +11/12 and +15 gears is so minimal, it goes unnoticed.
But of course you guys don’t know that because you don’t even try to make +11/12 gears and still complain about +15 and power levels.
@kaiakaito And 600m are 600m. INvesting in casual Bg and 1 woe each week or invest in your long term Pve char you play every day?
well you ought to at least spend that much if you want weekly 7+ bsb and other rewards 
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: kaiakaito (Flarum #244)
@thatcher
I wouldnt call it minimal.
Take Temp Circlet/EDDA Combo as an example. Those 4-5 extra refine levels means not only few attack, but 15-30% Skill Mod+other Dmg mods on top. Not to forget the overrefine bonus from refine Lvl 4 weapon.
I can see that some peeps are basicly living in Pvp and its cool. But I want to look at the entire playerbase and maybe attracting new players. But with current rewards with this power level and gap? I dont think so. Even guilds with good teamplay gets slaughtert by 2-3 Dps with few support with over refine gear, even tanky ones. Im even worried that the rental gear wont solve the issue…
Its just my personal Opinion here and if you disagree fine by me, but try to look in the future how to increase the playerbase rather think about personal opinion. And I think closing the gaps would be a good beginning.
But still, personal Opinion.
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: 123 (Flarum #1183)
Just notice if you guys want to compare
the % bonus count from 0% and grow up by your items
Means you stay with + 11/12 gears with x% total skill dmg increase
When u reach + 15 weapon and see that you have more 30 or 50% skill dmg increase. But it is not 50% as you think
It count by (x+50)% . Then the final dmg raise will very little if your x is big.
I have few weapon 15 then i can say, the final dmg increase compare with +12 is very little, not high as you think
And i have suggested expand all armor lv cap is +15 also. To make players who like pvp take more time to grow up their best gears.
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: tamagoyaki (Flarum #1373)
I agree with Kaia’s point of view where we need to mayhaps make PvP a more interesting and accessible content for new players. However, I would have to disagree with your statement:
@kaiakaito Even guilds with good teamplay gets slaughtert by 2-3 Dps with few support with over refine gear, even tanky ones.
There’s no way a capable, organized, and geared guild of 12 people will just drop to 2-3 DPS with only a few support. DPS by themselves can only do so much, as they die in one touch; it might’ve been a thing back when Aim Bolt had 20 or so range, but now I don’t think it’s possible. This has been shown by the GvGs of Daybreak and Astrologia – WoE is not simply a “refine match” between DPS.
But back to the thread’s point at hand, I feel like the bulk of the issue came from the fact that most guilds playing right now have way less than 12 players and no organizer/shotcaller. I’ve noticed that most people just monkey in alone without waiting for regroup, making them easy targets for, well, pretty much anyone.
So that brings us to intrepidenigma’s point of “how do we incentivize people to play objectives?” (or, like, learn how to play in an organized way, I guess) and I agree that there might be a need to rework the way rewards are given. I agree with Thatcher’s idea of guild-based criteria, but I have no idea how the numbers would be like - and quite frankly, it might be a better idea to keep this criteria secret so everyone will be on their toes every WoE and do their best ™.
Now I think talking about how to make PvP accessible while still keeping it challenging & appreciating everyone’s efforts to gear up until this moment warrants another thread, to be honest. It’s just another discussion altogether, in my opinion.
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Sora (Flarum #876)
increase bg rewards. You can learn bunch of stuff from there. For some reason the woeing guild rarely bg and the non woe player bg alot. Woe guilds can try to recruit them. How? By getting to know them from playing bg together ofc. Especially the leads
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: kaiakaito (Flarum #244)
@Sora
But wouldnt Bg not need some balancing changes so its somehow compare?
Before quitting Pvp, I remember Teams with Rg+Ranger insta win in bg due to the fact that Aimbolt is unnerfed there, same as some other skills.
Ignoring the gaps too, I know Bg is a different world than WoE but some things need to be shipped there too kinda
But would agree on the end…Bg would help gives a feeling for the game and Pvp in generel.
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: tamagoyaki (Flarum #1373)
@kaiakaito Agreed. It might need its own thread, though. If you have any ideas, please pitch in, Kaia!
EDIT: also, Kaia BG when?
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: kaiakaito (Flarum #244)
@tamagoyaki
Maybe I try to cook something there, cant promise tho!
I come back to Bg when Bg is fixed and re-balanced (and maybe better rewards) but only maybe
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Xenri (Flarum #1328)
@tamagoyaki to be fair, even in case of Daybreak and Astrologia, despite their good regrouping and shotcalling, you can tell there’s a big gap in terms of gearing. Last 3 WoE in horn was it ? where vitrage/daybreak/unicorns had a lot of members active, how far did they actually get ? Sure, defending side usually have advantage in the fight, but the fight was so one sided they couldn’t even get to 2nd barricade. Even if they managed to break guardian stones, they still never get through 2nd barricade before its fixed in the end.
@aewuu Yes, some people do get very competitive when it comes to PvP, and im not saying they should be 100% reliant on rentals either. But they should at least help newbies get used to how gear scaling and the fight went in bg or woe, other than just go in, get one shot, repeat. Much less gain experience, that’ll just make them hate PvP content.
Maybe its just me complaining while being a lazyass noob lmao, but not everyone have that much competitive spirit to heavily invest for PvP gears, with or without rewards. In the end the situation you’re describing is just “Don’t like it? then don’t play it.” And when they don’t, current situation just repeat. not enough people to make WoE an actual WoE. I’m not saying wanting to invest is a bad thing, but not everyone is the same. Some like me just want to have fun WoEing despite not needing to min-maxing my gears (hey at least i can still help my team despite that)
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: intrepidenigma (Flarum #387)
@Xenri
There is more too it. They played in two WoEs, they were short-handed in there first one back. Astro was short as well. The first week of Horn, that’s where both guilds were 12 v 12. In this one, they finally saw what the Meta was. You are right, they had a big disadvantage since they were attacking. They were probably dealing with the other guilds attempting to destroy their regroup at main entrance, also having to deal with the entrances that are placed near stair/hallway area of 1-1, 1-2. In short, it takes time to learn the meta and come up with a counter.
They did break our def at 1-1. We held at first cades for 5 mins. During this time, we did not see a push from them. I can’t say what held them (possible waiting for their Rangers to have Unlimit before they push) but after the 5 min CD of the stones, we rebuilt them and EC’d back to 1-1.
I can go more detail but I hope you can see there is more to it.
Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: GM_Icecold (Flarum #3)
WoE Rework
For now all I can say is that our prio is on the rental gear. If that is done we will focus on a new reward system. But everything will take time. We build for every class a build. Every build needs a lot of testing and adjusting.