Mjolnir underground cave zeny needs buff

Suggestions
1

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: BuffNotNerf (Flarum #859)

Mjolnir underground cave is supposed to be an alternative map for farming BBs. Niff2 is getting crowded as more and more people are getting to end game.

Right now, theres zero reason to go mjol underground. Its more like a more difficult and inferior map compared to niff2.

Mjol underground mobs hits harder and they drain sp, it should only be fair that the rewards it would give should be greater compared to the far easier niff2. But i am not asking for that one, i am only asking to atleast bring it on par with niff2 when it comes to raw zeny.

I compared both and usually i get 15-17m raw zeny on niff2 (picking everything except the doll and dead branch) per bbg

While in mjol underground I only get 7m per bbg

Zelus shadowdecons and etel dusts are rougly the same (though you waste more time on underground cave bec you have to convert ores)

The main reason for this are the weapons and access that sells for around 100k+ on tool dealer.

TLDR:

With how significantly more difficult it is to farm in underground cave, i think its only natural to buff the zeny generation to be on par with niff2. This can be done by either buffing zeny from killing mobs there or making some items there that is currently selling for 0zeny on npc to atleast have some value so when sold, it would be rougly equal to selling the weapons and access from niff2.

This will benefit the players having more variety and less crowded niff2

2

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: CongaLyne (Flarum #748)

Doesn’t Mjolnir underground give more BB per hour than nif2?
Does it really need a zeny buff?

I’m pretty sure the reason people farm nif2 over mjolnir isn’t the zeny/hr, it’s that it’s a lot more demanding to farm mjolnir than it is to farm nif2

3

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: BuffNotNerf (Flarum #859)

Nope i tried 10 bbg niff2 and 10bbg mjolnir underground both yielded me between fewest is mjolnir yielded me 26Bb and most was niff yielded me 36bb, but mostly both hovers around 28-31.

With niff2, selling everything yields me 15m minimum while mjolnir only 6m-7m. If I use those zeny to buy more BBs then niff2 is still more optimized.

Niff2 also average 4 people , max i did was 6 people + me according to map statistics, while mjo underground always no people. Technically mjo should give more because no competition and higher drop rate according to @mi. Sadly that isnt the case for me atleast.

Getting mjo to have same or even just like maybe 1m-2m lower raw zeny than niff2 should probably make it a worthwile alternative.

Right now, nobody is doing it because it is inferior

4

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Crosscy (Flarum #860)

On the side note I also want to ask if the mobs have a wrong % to skill cast chance on chase. It’s almost impossible for melee characters to farm there because they have a 100% chance to cast fire bolt the moment u move. I even tried going pasana armor and I’m still eating a lot of pots just to farm BB. AFAIK I use more golden pots farming there than depth 2 on a melee dk. It’s very ridiculous

I don’t think it’s supposed to be 100% it’s too cancerous for the damage. Can this be checked?

5

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: CongaLyne (Flarum #748)

I don’t think dungeons should be made easier or more lucrative just because they aren’t on par with the best possible option, otherwise that just invites a lot of loot creep once another dungeon becomes better

“The bloody forest biome gives more BB & zeny per hour than nif2 and Moljnir, we should buff both of those so we have more options to choose from”

Some dungeons are just worse than others

6

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Muh (Flarum #1)

If it was as crowded as nif it might result in more bb gain because if you are solo monsters tend to group up in corners and there are a lot of them.

That’s no comment/decision on the suggestion, so don’t stop discussing it :slight_smile:

7

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: CongaLyne (Flarum #748)

@CongaLyne Further adding onto this

I also want to ask if the mobs have a wrong % to skill cast chance on chase. It’s almost impossible for melee characters to farm there because they have a 100% chance to cast fire bolt the moment u move.

I don’t think dungeons should be accustomed because a specific class is struggling to play it

Should we nerf dungeons next because I’m struggling to farm there on my Hyper Novice? What about my melee only Cardinal? Should my afk auto-cast Imperial Guard be catered for?

Different jobs and builds suit different scenarios, all melee builds are innately bad at dungeon farming, this isn’t unique to mjolnir.
The mobs still hit me hard there on Trouvere, it takes defensive buffs to survive and I still end up needing to repeatedly talk to the healer, the dungeon plays rough without GTB.

Weakening the spells they cast because they’re a challenge to deal with takes away from the dungeon’s identity.

8

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: MadMonkey (Flarum #165)

Well, if it can help decongest Niff a bit and give another option for zeny farming (which sadly seems like half your activity when you start on your endgame gearing), I’m all for it.

@CongaLyne Some dungeons are just worse than others

Sure, but then there’s a difference between a dungeon being worse than its alternatives and a dungeon not even being worth the time.
Especially when this is an endgame one.

9

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: karunatan (Flarum #555)

@CongaLyne all melee builds are innately bad at dungeon farming, this isn’t unique to mjolnir.

Just to drop my two cents here - I farm here just fine, I’m melee and rely on leech gears. This applies to all the other dungeons as well.

Of course you’ll be off to a bad start as a melee if you don’t gear yourself.

Two cents out.

10

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: BuffNotNerf (Flarum #859)

@CongaLyne Theres clearly a misunderstanding here. I never asked to make mjolnir to be better than niff2. I even stated that it doesnt need to be as good as niff2. So do not worry, i know niff2 is easy and not everyone can farm mjol underground. It would be unfair if suddenly mjol becomes better and people cant farm the best dungeon anymore because of its difficulty.

I just pointed out that mjol is more difficult to farm on and i think its only fair that it shouldnt be significantly inferior to a far more easier dungeon like niff2.

I am merely asking if its possible to make it close to niff2. I compared both my BB gain, zelu, shadowdecon and zeny per hour on both maps. Everything is the same so I figured it is meant to be an alternative. At its current state though, its a waste of time and effort because the difference in zeny is just that big.

Zeny might not be the reason you farm niff, but it will always be a factor when it comes to how attractive a dungeon is to farm on. Even just by making the zeny difference per BBG 1-2m less than niff2 will already make it a good attractive.

Niff2 is getting more crowded, i remember before consistently theres 4-5 people farming there, now sometimes theres 8 people. As the server grows, the map will only get more and more frustrating to farm on with all the noks people there, so maybe by making mjol underground a good alternative can reduce that.

The only bad thing i can see from this though is that it might devalue some mvp cards because with more people able to farm BBs, more mvp cards can show up. But its not entirely bad either since if mvp cards are more accessible then we might get more people farming depths2 and make depths2 materials drop prices lol

11

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Crosscy (Flarum #860)

@CongaLyne

Ps I’m not asking for nerfs. You’re being too hasty. Mob info could be wrong is what I’m asking for checks of. Because I don’t see kRO players complaining about the map so it could be a possibly it’s overtuned. Yes, fix, no, sure let it be.

in any case the comment that “some dungeons are just worse” doesn’t make any sense in this server context. The best farms here are geffenia and nif2 and could be there by choice of the server custom features (Massive density for geffenia/not sure if nif2 has increased density). For the sake of server health any dungeon certainly can be made better IF muh wants it to be.

I vote yes for a slight mjolnir buff (regardless of me asking about if mob is wrongly tuned or not) because it has become rather stale locking players to only 2 maps for efficiency. Some variety of mob is nice to me. As to there being more BB drop, unless we suddenly have a huge influx of new players entering the server, every one increase in mjolnir is one less in nif. There will certainly be increase in BB, but it would only be due to less competition amongst farmers and therefore not be as large as you would imagine.

12

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: BuffNotNerf (Flarum #859)

Actually i redact my statement about there being more BBs in the market, i went to niff2 earlier with 8 people (according to statistics) with me being the 9th, and still got 27BBs. Then again, BB drop rate is small that RNG can make it vary a lot. I think because or the instant spawn of grotes, when 1 dies, another one instantly spawns making it viable even with 8+ players. Then again, i play EM so i just spam ground lingering aoes and tp out, making it look like im in 2 places at a time. For melee classes though, i imagine the more people the more they will struggle.

But for someone like me who has social anxiety, i prefer to grind on maps without people. I feel bad because most of the time i accidentally fire my aoes not noticing other people making me feel like a kill stealing bad person lol.

So making mjo maybe 1-2m less raw zeny than niff2 is still a welcome alternative for those who just want to avoid crowd

13

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Pipo (Flarum #133)

There are several problems, fewer mobs, instant use of mobs skills, less zeny, less zelu, I’m there professionally farming timbers. All this needs to be corrected so that it becomes on par with niff2 and it was an affordable alternative

14

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: BuffNotNerf (Flarum #859)

@Pipo thank you for your input. I never really paid attention to zelus during my 10bbg runs there as I see zelus as a bonus that my character needs since im not all +15 yet.

But for a maxed out char that sells zeluniums for funding for more BBs, then i can see how its also a big factor why niff2 is significantly better than its supposed alternative dungeon.

If thats the case, then it would take much more work for muh to balance it than I previously thought. I thought it was only zeny wise that made the dungeon so unappealing to farm as alternative.

I truly dont mind about the stronger / more annoying mobs there though, as I said, I only want mjolnir underground to be an alternative and not a replacement as it would defeat the whole point of fixing the overcrowding of niff2 if people would all move to mjolnir underground.

Thats why Im only suggesting it to be just a tad bit less rewarding compared to niff2. But at its current state, there is a significant margin separating both making it not worth it.

15

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: Pasu (Flarum #842)

In my opinion, there should be more options to balance with Nif2 for various classes rather than relying solely on places like Geffenia with Doping and several other classes being left out. Mjolnir is evidently a more challenging place to farm compared to Nif2, yet it receives less attention and interest. Even though it’s an alternative to farming BB after Nif2, few opt for it, choosing instead easier Zeny farming spots like CTB, Thana11&12. I advocate for paying more attention to Mjolnir rather than excessively crowding Nif2. Frankly, I’m tired of KS with other players, feeling like it’s something I’m forced to do when there are too many people on one map and I have no other feasible alternatives, at least not ones that are equally viable.

16

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: BuffNotNerf (Flarum #859)

I guess pipo is right. Im sorry, i thought this is an easy fix that bumping raw zeny would make it closer to niff2 efficiency. I just did few runs of both again, shadowdecons, zelus and zeny all yielded significantly lower in mjolnir than niff2. Only etel dust and bbs are roughly the same.

I dont want to super bump raw zeny gain to make up for zelus and shadowdecons though as it will further contribute to inflation, we have geffenia problem as it is, having 3 raw zeny maps would ruin the price for new players further. The prices of end game mats are already expensive for new players.

In order for it to be close to niff2, it needs buff in zelus and shadowdecons as well, maybe decrease droprates in shadowdecon and zelunium ores to balance out. Aside from raw zeny ofcourse.

Anyhow i dont think this is an urgent matter, as right now, niff2 is still fine (some days i see rampant KS warnings though) so maybe others can think of better ideas. Just worried that with server getting more popular, niff2 will eventually get into overcrowded territory and would not make a good experience grinding there.

This is for absolute end game though, as i consider mvp cards the final step to min maxing.

17

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: kaiakaito (Flarum #244)

Im bumping this up

I had some time to think for maybe something else, some other kind of solution. We learned that BB Drop rate is not better than Niff2 and every player will go there instead of Mjo Cave. Raw Zeny and drops are not good/trash tier as well.
So what could we do?

After thinking, I came to an conclusion. Most dungeons have “unique drops”, like materials or weapon/gear of that content. While Niff2 has all the weapons and some headgears (like Sealed Chain), I saw that the only additional drop is Hard Ice (1001135) which is only needed for Good Evil Boots.

My suggestion:
Give Mjo Cave some additional drops for Dynite (Bcs Flush Weapon creation need those), upgrade stones (they drop Low Weapon Upgrade stones, why not more) and more rare drops for Safety/Flush Weapons.
That way people can decide to farm Mjo Cave to grab some extra Dynites while farming for some BB’s and maybe a Flush Weapon they desire. If it dont drop, they can still craft/reform it with the current system. If they get weapons they dont need, they can still sell it (Muh need to add a sell price to Safety/Flush weapons to the NPC tho).

It gives a extra income, while not breaking BB drop rates and can be good for progression to some chars.
Reminder:
This is just a thought from me, it can be good or I forgot something what makes it terrible. Im here to find solutions, because Mjo Cave is more endgame orientet but offers nothing really except some BB’s. It could be uset for progression for people who cant clear Biosphere or want Flush Weapon for their build.
Maybe it helps for a solution :=)

18

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: riverpebble (Flarum #756)

@kaiakaito We learned that BB Drop rate is not better than Niff2

Not true; the drop rate is 1.21% from timbers instead of 1.07% from grotes. So about 13% better chance.

19

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: kaiakaito (Flarum #244)

@riverpebble Even while the drop rate is little bit higher, no one goes there for BB. Niff is way better in term of
1. Monster Numbers
2. Overall Loot value

We see it, 3-6 people in Niff2 while 0-1 is in Mjo Cave.

But this post is about “buffing” Mjo Cave and not “Timbers have slighty better drop rate”

20

Imported from legacy Flarum.
Original author: BuffNotNerf (Flarum #859)

@riverpebble while it is on paper, its not the same in practice.

Blow for blow, if you just kill timbers and grotes for sure you would get more BBs.

But we are talking about the map as a whole. You get SIGNIFICANTLY more zelus, shadows, raw zeny on niff2, which in turn, you can convert to more BBs.

1.07 vs 1.21% are both low enough that by killing thousands of mobs per BBG, through the nature of RNG, both will yield you the same amount of BBs. So droprates are completely irrelevant in actuality.

For pure BB gain, 5runs of niff2 for me(around 2-4people in map), i get 28 32 35 22 and 19. 5 runs of mjolnir underground (only me in the map, but theres a time when i saw another person there but didnt see him again), i get 31 24 35 20 and 22. Just a small sample and is not really indicative of anything. But the droprate is very low that even if 17% more, doesnt actually amount to much.

Which is why people look at the map as a whole as a deciding factor. By selling everything to the npc, i get around 15-20m raw zeny on niff2, more shadowdecons and more zelus (which can be easily sold to get more BBs)

While in mjolnir, you get like 5m raw zeny and lesser zelus and shadowdecons on top of actually being more difficult to farm as mobs hurt more.

Im not even suggesting to buff mjolnir to be better than niff2. I dont mind it being a lesser alternative to niff2 if niff2 is crowded. But not with this discrepancy though.

A little more zelus shadowdecons drops + maybe raw zeny of 12-15m per bbg is enough to make it attractive as an alternative to niff2.

Right now its a waste of time farming in mjolnir as both niff2 and mjolnir serves the same purpose. Unless youre hunting for the card or mvp