Instances Rankings

forum_archive · July 1, 2025, 12:00pm

Title: [Instance Rankings and It’s Integration into Discord Ecosystem]

Description:
Firstly, implement instance rankings for top 100 fastest instances runners. Master accounts unique. Refreshed every 1 month or 2 weeks. Should not have to be exact list but would be rank 1-10: (char names listed alphabetically or randomly), rank 11-30:(names), rank 31-100:(names). Other combinations are open for discussion and might be changed as the server or the discord discussion volume is expanding/shrinking. Discord mods input would be greatly appreciated for this matter.

Secondly, give temporary badges or temporary roles (or something of similar discord feature) for those rankers in discord. The purpose is so that avoiding sub optimal answers from newbies/mid progression players that is simply louder, and give more weights for words coming out of veterans with credibility and good competitiveness in game, but is less loud in discord/socials. The purpose of 2 weeks/1 month rank refresh is to sort out so that the rank would only list the best among the active people at the end of the in game list reset period.

Why is this a good idea?
I think a simple list of rankings would be redundant without a channel to utilize it. And that also I see the lowering quality of discussions within the last 6-9 months and that some veterans won’t bother anymore guiding newbies if whenever they’re giving some hot af tips but are ignored if they’re not loud enough or sure enough (Dunning-Kruger effect). Also would avoid trolls that only came to discords just for the case of arguing sake while not even playing anymore and also filtering and add doubts for opinions coming out of questionable players (misinformant/disinformant).

What risks or downsides does it have?
It may add certain pressures but I think it is minimal because from the suggestion we won’t know who is truly rank 1 etc. Also I’d suggest against gifting additional material benefits (e.g. costumes) as it would provide fuels for envy. I’d like this to be purely a display of technical prowess and as a beacon of progress (you will know if you are not efficient enough if you’re not among the rank but that’s all)

Additional Info:
The idea is not originally mine but it’s too good to be forgotten so I’ll just write it out and expand it with my own taste (only start writing after I saw noone wrote about it since 1h ago in #global). Credits for everyone who were there in #global busy brainstorming (ain’t namedropping but y’all can reply and claim the glory). Also please upvote and subscribe to my channel. Cheers

forum_archive · July 1, 2025, 12:08pm

Even though I enjoy a competitive environment, I wouldn’t like to see this spread to the entire server.
The rankings themselves aren’t the problem, it’s the kind of people they attract. Competitiveness creates a competitive atmosphere, and that often leads to toxicity.

We’ve already seen this kind of behavior in PvP leaderboards/rankings and also in some events with unnecessary comments, where it has only endup causing drama & issues.

Its only my opinion but i don’t think opening the door to more of that is something the server needs.

forum_archive · July 1, 2025, 12:15pm

@Mysto it’s not about the competition, as the exact rank is not the main point and would remain unknown (read again my thread please). It’s about increasing discord discussion quality by providing reference for the player’s competency in game (play better to be heard better) and filtering out unwanted noises (trolls, rude gang, etc)

forum_archive · July 1, 2025, 12:27pm

@hoegenaamd It’s a competition, you’re ranking people and assigning them a number. Even if you say it’s hidden, you still know who the top 10 are. This community helps each other selflessly, and I believe it should stay that way.

As an idea, I wouldn’t be against having a specific role for veterans, but it should involve active support, not something you earn and then disappear without helping, also without benefits attached.

forum_archive · July 1, 2025, 12:40pm

@Mysto uhhh no you’re missing the point. Also the exact numbers of the names are not known, you will only know what bracket approximately. Also It is possible for veterans to not be competent but that’s ok. And what you suggest should be put on other thread (go write out your own vision please).

My point is through these demonstration, there will be objective measures for the best methods(this is empirical level, and of which the data are proven objectively), while your suggestion is on social-communication level (you are forcing suggestion of wrong level). I would advise you to read again my thread because it seems that you’re not fully comprehending it.

forum_archive · July 1, 2025, 12:49pm

@hoegenaamd I’ve read your thread more than once, and I do understand the intention behind it, you want a way to filter “noise” and highlight competent voices based on ingame performance/expertise. But i still disagree with the core of the idea.

Whether you reveal exact rankings or just brackets, it is a competitive system. You are proposing a public display of who performs best in instances, tied to Discord visibility and credibility. People will aim to appear on that list, not just to improve their gameplay, but to gain recognition and with that, competitiveness, ego, toxicity and gatekeeping.

You say my suggestion is “on the wrong level” because it focuses on communication and social behavior. But this is a community, not just a lab for efficiency metrics. If someone has great clears but never helps or talks down to others, do they really deserve more visibility? Good gameplay doesnt always mean good contribution to discussion.

If this idea goes forward, I hope its shaped in a way that prioritizes mentorship, not silent elitism. (I will not reply more since there will be no more feedback from me in this topic)

forum_archive · July 1, 2025, 12:56pm

@Mysto my suggestion was designed to specifically avoid this kind of deadlock situation, e.g. unproductive debate, and I think it’s not bad as a starting example of its utility

forum_archive · July 1, 2025, 2:17pm

I believed that we should add class specific ranking on these speedruns because classes like SX, AC and Inqui will be always top 1 on the speedrun top list so that everyone should have a chance to shine.

forum_archive · July 1, 2025, 3:54pm

@Randomced859 great point

forum_archive · July 1, 2025, 4:12pm

I think the discord badge/role goes a bit against the spirit of what you’re wanting, because it’s in the same vein as giving special costumes or loot bonuses, even if not at same level. I think having fastest runners announced on discord or whatever is fine though.

forum_archive · July 1, 2025, 8:39pm

@Ado then also simple announcements might defeat its purpose because it’s kinda pointless in itself cuz it is a fully bragging rights now. What I want to find is a way for legit knowledge or practice to spread by competent player (not mod/em/gm) more easily, without unnecessary debate which would more likely occur if there’s no indicator of both parties’s performance in game. Also the case that english as a language is a barrier in debate and discussions and that good tips from good player in game might be just overlooked, of which could be a different matter if the one that utters it have those badges, even if the english is not that good. The point is as I said before, “to be heard better by playing harder”, not by talking harder or talking better because it’s clearly 2 different skillsets.

Also it doesn’t have to be strictly a ranking or bracket. It could also be something like various badges of 0.1% or 1% or 10% percentile fastest or “under 30 seconds or under 3 minutes 10 seconds”(of certain instances clear calculated from the last reset month’s server runs ranking or it can be just manually adjusted by gm/team). It just need to be an indicator that the individuals do prove their salt and probably how valuable their advices will potentially be without them having to duke it all out in the threads (we are all old). Otherwise the advices in general, if coming out of so-so players or new ones could be viewed by healthy skepticism and I think it would only increase the quality of the debate on substace level and perhaps also on the etiquette side(top player unnecessary roast new player would only backfired on themselves, they will be better off stopping after uttering their points or be seen as rude, or the opposite happens and that you can easily spot argumentative smartass type of person). I think the latter case will work especially regarding class specific knowledge/optimization, as Ced input that mentioned separation by class-rank

forum_archive · July 1, 2025, 9:02pm

@Ado for example, imagine this hot debate happens in one of the class group about say “tan hard” and there’s like 5 people of 10% percentile badges duking it out and it happens that it is 4 people against 1. And then one 1% percentile dude came and backs up one one guy. The debate ends there. And maybe gracefully saving everyone’s face because neither of the 4 would want to die on their hill after seeing this.

Different case would likely to happen without the badges. Also that the problem is sometimes people (myself included) think they are already on the most optimal state because there are no objective mirror to see and compare ourselves in. I think it would happen to many veterans players and this probably would help one develop better post-guides progressions, both in materials sense and also in pure gaming skills/routine to practice or to prioritize

forum_archive · July 2, 2025, 12:05am

@hoegenaamd I dont mind if you all want it, was pointing out a small thing only, didnt mean for it to come off as if i was opposing it.
I personally appreciate how passionate you seem to be about this idea.
I dont necessarily think it will achieve all the things you’re expecting it to, but I’ll be in favor of it either way.

forum_archive · July 2, 2025, 2:17am

-1, I think this will foster elitism instead of what you aim to achieve. This is a community , we should not aim to discourage discussion even if it seems like everyone is just duking it out. I don’t see a relation between good knowledge of the game and clear times. It is a factor but not all of it.

forum_archive · July 2, 2025, 4:25am

-1, ado is right. Basically just another costume to brag about

forum_archive · July 2, 2025, 7:04am

@Ado same on my side either. This idea is so raw and abstract I don’t even know where will it ended up. It’s not even mine.

All I know so far is that:

Somehow gonna minimize the bragging effect by framing it as more like a active practitioner doctor license than a lambo. It is done by how we setting up the requirements, the obfuscation of the information made public regarding the said list, and the final presentation of the badge. Key is “visible enough for it to be seen when necessary, but not shiny enough to brag about it”
I just saw the potential from the discord-game and statistics integration which are too big and wasteful to ignore. Also even if it is not exactly by this suggestion that will achieve the aim (e.g. maybe it is bad to implement afterall), we’re already heading towards that direction anyway so it might be inevitable. There are plethora of other means to achieve the aim, we just need to explore them one by one (also yes write your visions as suggestion guys)

forum_archive · July 2, 2025, 7:05am

@Sora uhhhh no. Read again the thread please. It is exactly what i am trying to avoid

forum_archive · July 2, 2025, 7:10am

@yurizeta allright I understand your preferences and I have no problem if you like to duke it out in forums. However my preferences regarding forum discussion is different and i would prefer it to be yet more civil and also with more clues regarding whom you speak to (beside the server join date of which is already a good indicator). This is just a matter of taste, no right or wrong in it

forum_archive · July 2, 2025, 7:48am

@hoegenaamd to make it down to the earth of what I wrote, we would need requirements for the run to be recorded (maybe listed on the npc somewhere) and frame it to be like taking a license irl and make it fair (and it would be changable by request), each different for every instance for example it may be like this:

A. Tan normal (solo, WH)

One member in the party with WH class
Max refine +12
No mvp cards allowed

B. Villa hard (solo dual client, DK)

Two chars in the party, same master account (one char must be of DK class, the other must not be inquisitor)
No refine restrictions
No mvp cards restrictions

C. Villa hard (2 players, inquisitor)

Two chars in the marty, different master account (one character must be of inquisitor class)
Max refine +12
Mvp cards restrictions

forum_archive · July 2, 2025, 11:51am

No matter how you want it to be good, it would just make the server more elitist. Before long people would shut people up just because of the badges and who to say people with badges doesnt just lie to other people to make them still on top? And if the people with badges doesnt say anything, then why make the badge in the first place?

Anyway i know you meant good, but theres just too much cons when compared to pros. -1